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[ISS] Offer to IAC

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:54:00 - [1] This is a very strange post by ISS. Don't these kind of 'genuine' offers take place behind closed doors?.. you know between the movers and shakers away from the prying eyes of a ravenous EVE-O public? Lets call this out as what it is... ISS want to make an offer publicly.. that on the surface of it seems acceptable. Only ISS really suspect IAC will not take it.. or else it would have been offered in private or already has been? IAC then have to explain to the rest of EVE, why they didnt take such a 'nice' offer. This is an e-peen post.. make no mistake about it. Who's e-peen is bigger ISS' or IAC's? We shall see.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:11:00 - [2] Originally by: Press Officer Smart move for a shareholder alliance ... try being it sometime ... A public offer for peace and the station back for free .... all IAC have to do is not shoot at the ISS .... aka .. calling IAC's bluff .... this is the ISS equivalent of B-R-I-N-G-I-T. Its a smart move only if ISS have a full house, do they? Surely Count T is not bluffing with shareholders money? This is not the act of a publicly owned company. Count T's e-wang nearly poked my eye out when I read his OP.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:17:00 - [3] Edited by: Nez Perces on 01/01/2007 23:18:29 Originally by: Press Officer Not even close to what was said .... try again and shuffle the pack. /emote shuffles.. It does not matter what the offer is.. the point is Count T knew for a fact IAC won't accept it. Therefore.......... Its for show, to colour IAC as a belligerent, blood thirsty rabble. Well maybe they are but... this offer was not genuine. The response was known before hand. Only the blind and ISS shareholders can't see this for what it is. But hey maybe the ISS shareholders are actually the intended audience and not IAC at all....?
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:26:00 - [4] Edited by: Nez Perces on 01/01/2007 23:26:44 Originally by: Press Officer Therefore nothing ... its called being smart ..... shall I spell it for you Look you will see what you want to see ... as will I, as will whoever reads the forums... Point is Count T's OP does not lead to peace it leads to an escalation of the conflict if that was indeed possible. Which contradicts one of the key things Count T stated in his OP: Originally by: Count Tesassine ISS is not interested in dragging on with this war. We're roleplaying a corporate entity, and as such war is bad for business. So.. either Count T is stupid, or this OP was a subtle lie.... perhaps he is getting better at it.... next time we may not even notice.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Serenity Steele These are the facts: A) It's a genuine offer B) It's posted here because we want all IAC members to be aware. C) It's an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. One thing I can't stand for is hypocrisy mascaraded as innocence.... A) Its a genuine offer. >>>>>>>> no its not, you knew the answer before hand, they already said NO B) It's posted here because we want all IAC member to be aware. >>>>>> you want to colour IAC's leadership as irresponsable and belligerent.. i.e drive a wedge between IAC top brass and the rank and file C) Its an opportunity for IAC to enter dialogue. >>>>>>> No, its a threat mascaraded as an opportunity, you can enter dialogue with IAC at any time, just open a private convo.. what you wanted to do is force them to enter dialogue by exposing a deal which they alredy refused and which seems reasonable on the face of it... but that IAC will not accept for some reason or another.. you don't want dialogue you want IAC to bend over and take what you will give them... This was a "Who's the daddy?" post......there is nothing wrong with that, but don't play the innocent card. Its fooling nobody.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:14:00 - [6] Originally by: ReaperOfSly You haven't answered my question about why you think IAC are winning? Finally we arrive at the truth.... ISS think they have the upper hand or are bluffing. IAC think they have the upper hand, are bluffing, or are simply willing to fight ISS indefinitely. I said it earlier in another thread... the problem for ISS is time.... its just not on your side. .. also I can't help feeling that there will be no resolution or peace in this conflict till one of the sides is buried. ISS have grown an e-peen, and with that comes pride and no entity wants to swallow its pride, not even a corporate role-playing one. With an e-peen comes the transition from a neutral entity to one that will throw its weight around when it can.... even if ISS win this war they will be transformed into a different entity than they used to be. ISS got themselves a taste for power.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:33:00 - [7] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 00:40:03 Originally by: ReaperOfSly Can't swallow our pride? What do you call offering the bottleshop in exchange for peace? You got the bottleshop via McFIX/LV/Kia/Veto ... yeah sure it cost you some isk to get... but its not like you sweated blood and tears for it. The way it has played out is that IAC started throwing their weight around... you called in the big guns and captured the IAC outpost. When the big guns go home, you realise IAC isn't sitting in a corner crying? Hmmm, Houston we have a problem. IAC have some friends, big friends... bigger friends than MC and FIX and KIA and Veto... friends that can neutralise LV in the east. If IAC's friends stick with them, you are screwed.... if you wanna hear the truth... unless.... BoB gets dragged into it. I know.. I know its the B word that we shall not mention... but thats the way the cookie is crumbling. PS - there is another difference, IAC's friends turn up for free.. you have to pay for your 'friends' and even then your leader aint all that pleased about their performance... oopsy daisy.... [edit:small addition]
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:46:00 - [8] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 00:47:22 Originally by: Derran But IAC should have more sense than to turn down a peace offering. It goes to show who is really the bad guy here. ..gah comeon.. since when is 0.0 about peace? The game is war... UK should know that, I mean you have a symbiotic existance with CVA who you war all the time. Why don't CVA and UK sign a peace treaty already... what is it with all this pointless fighting.. think of the children !!!
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:11:00 - [9] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 01:24:43 Originally by: j0sephine "2. We havent called on them yet" Isn't then relying on their presence and performance like on some kind of deus ex machina... pretty much counting your chickens before they hatch, then..? Well thats the thing j0sephine....... it seems AAA don't even have to perform. The mere possiblity of them getting stuck into this IAC <> ISS war was sufficient for MC to want their contract rewritten... in the form of more ISK and a "better plan". We have had leaks (possibly genuine) of The Mittandi (Goon Top Brass) in no uncertain terms making it quite clear that ISS need to back down. RAGoonTCF can keep LV busy... ISS may have to pay through the nose to get MC to fight AAA. That leaves IAC to fight ISS mano a mano. All the outside influences have balanced themselves out so that this may end up being a straight up fight between ISS and IAC. Both parties should have a lot of fun. [edit:missed out TCF]
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:45:00 - [10] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 01:48:43 Originally by: j0sephine I can see why ISS would want to cut down their ptential war expenses through this sort of ceasefire offer, but if the offer is rejected then it's imo premature to presume it's some sort of easy "everyone vs ISS" turkey shooting. While it appears this presumption is to large extent driving current attitude of IAC... hence my counting chickens comment. Well I don't think predicting an "everyone vs ISS" turkey shooting is the correct way to put it... I'm not sure if you misunderstood my post. Lets think of it like a chemical equation. War starts >>>> IAC refuse to state whether Outposts will be part of the equation. ISS call in McFIX/LV/KIA/Veto IAC are for a short period up ****e creek without a paddle. but... the cancelling out starts to happen: LV cancelled out by RAGoon MC cancelled out by AAA (or at least made it expensive enough for ISS to think twice before being able to afford it and ofc FIX don't do anything these days without having their hand held) KIA is actually contracted to attack ISS, thats mercs for ya.. VETO don't even get paid on time, they go elsewhere. So who are you left with? the only remaining elements are IAC and ISS and KIA on an empire contract against ISS. Thats not counting your eggs before they hatched.. thats just some simple deduction, which seems to have escaped ISS and particularly Count T, which is why the OP is such a retarded piece of PR. As for you who you can count on.. you can't count on anybody with 100% certainty in EVE, only your own alliance, and not even that sometimes.. just ask Cyvok. Lets face it.. the reality is that the only force that could destabilise this whole picture is B..... [edit:typo]
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:57:00 - [11] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 03:58:24 Originally by: shanda captison I didn't say that i simply said the current situation is not effecting our income in response to you saying we couldnt last in a drawn out war. Just saying isk wont be an issue due to if our members are short they can run off to a quite area and make some without much trouble. This is what ISS just don't understand, you can tell its the first time a lot of you have been in a real 0.0 war.. where your if you lose, you could lose it all. This war is not about ISK, its not about shareholders or markets or anything so fancy... This is a good old fashioned war for power, territory and control. IAC think you need to die, or at least come under their control. They are fighting for things, which ISS don't understand. You must have known this day would come, that one day conditions would arise where you could not hide behind mercs or isk. Now is when your Navy should come into its own. There seems to be no outside aid forthcoming for ISS in the short, medium or long term. The parties that were aiding you have been neutralised in some form or another. You are in 0.0 and you are gonna have to fight IAC once they sober up. There is no escaping it.. and all the shareholders in the world aren't going to change that. ISK has never one wars in EVE, never has done, never will.. what wins wars is willpower. The commitment to see an objective through till the end. And it sure seems like IAC have plenty of that.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Nebba Kenezzer Good luck IAC + allies. I look forward to seeing your dreads in siege mode. OFC... LV is an interested party here, but do you not have your hands full with RAGoonTCF? and if MC get called in again, do AAA not turn up? and excuse me whilst I slip on my tinfoil hat... if B.... turn up, could we see D... turn up? This conflict is the best.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:41:00 - [13] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 07:47:32 Originally by: Keorythe Ignoring the role of ISK in a conflict or trying to substitute it with fevor is stupid and shows how low you'll stay in the leadership chain. bah... isk grows on trees in EVE.... if you wanna fight you can always find the isk, but if you don't wanna fight isk is the first excuse you come up with. edit: I can't think of any entity that lost a war cause they run out of money.. its morale and willpower that runs out and then the isk you have, doesn't seem worthwhile spending on a war you don't wanna fight.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 12:15:00 - [14] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 12:22:09 You have some terrible arguments Eskona Runningstar, I'm not saying that you are wrong or right in your conclusion that IAC is determined to take as much risk as they can.. but your arguments to get there are appalling. Originally by: Eskona Runningstar From an outsider's point of view, you wont get a better offer from ISS. They cant grant IAC the same status quo as it was before IAC set ISS to -10 in which it would be as easy for IAC to attack as it was the first time - nothing would keep IAC from doing it again. As per your conclusion that IAC are wreckless, why would they care whether this offer from ISS is the best they will get? IAC want ISS to die or at least have its position in Catch much reduced, to the point where they would no longer be a political force in the area. There isn't a lot of manouvre for negotiation from IAC's posture, at least on the forums. They want ISS dead or very much weakened. Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Right now IAC is worse off than when the war started, why would ISS accept peace terms in which ISS are worse off than before the war? Anybody who has been following this conflict will accept that this will be a game of two halves.. the first half ISS had by far the upper hand.... with the new year will come the second half of the war, IAC very much fancy their chances. If they are right, by the end of the war they will be laughing. Originally by: Eskona Runningstar It seems IAC want to take as much risk as they can - but as far as I can tell ISS pockets are far deeper than IAC pockets, and just because ISS does not employ mercenaries currently does not mean they will not do so in the future. This is going to be ISS' achilles heel, thinking that ISK is going to bail them out or save them .. it's not. This war will be won or lost by ISS' commitment to it, and your commitment to the war may be tested beyond calling in mercs and other 'shareholder' type alliances. Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Furthermore, IACs current chest-beating seems not to be based on their own strength, but on that of their current allies. I remember a few days ago ISS had overwhelming numbers with their allies against IAC, who is to tell current IAC allies wont leave at some point for various reasons just like ISS allies are on leave currently for various reasons (none of which have been stated as "we will not help ISS in the future at all, no matter how much they are willing to pay")? And what about ISS chestbeating, what is that based on? Is it based on the all powerful ISSN?..... no its based on ISK and believing that the ISK will save them, they will hire mercs till the cows come home, pull in favours from investors etc... etc... infact IAC have had to call in friends because of the gigantic gangbang ISS put together to capture the F4R post. Now it seems the tables are turning. And there is one very important thing to consider here... Why are IAC getting all this help, what is it that IAC are providing that gets them all this support? Its not ISK, so what is it? Well... its about power on the big stage, on a stage bigger than ISS and IAC. This war will become about the animosity inherent between one of your allies, LV and the RAGoonTCFAAA connection. No peace will come from Count Tesassine's OP.. only MORE war, and possibly the biggest conflict escalation EVE has ever seen. If ISS were looking for peace, this OP has to be the most retarded post of the year. If ISS were however looking to escalate a conflict that was already at boiling point.. its a brilliant post.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:07:00 - [15] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 13:10:25 Originally by: Eskona Runningstar Im an outsider and not familiar with the merc contracts, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that after deducting merc payments from the 25 billion station ISS still made a profit.... and other stuff like it.... K Eskona, I give up ... You think wars in EVE are one big giant spreadsheet. I think its quite pointless convincing you otherwise. OFC you are wrong you just don't know it.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk ISK was not IAC's motivation in all this, standings reflecting our feelings was. I just ask for bribes in every single negotiation because I want to be bribed. You know this is the impression I'm getting throughout this saga... IAC are fighting for personal reasons, even emotional reasons... you could say. They just don't like ISS' way of doing things and they are angry... very little do with ISK, same can be said about IAC allies, the motivation is not ISK, its power-broking on a large scale or simply wanting to inconvenience certain parties. ISS on the other hand.. everything they do is ISK motivated, and that includes any allies that may turn up to help them, mercs or shareholder alliances, trying to defeat IAC is ISK motivated and also trying and failing to make peace is also ISK motivated. And in a game like EVE, where the ISK is imaginary but the feelings are not..... hmm.... I don't see the ISS camp having the stamina for the kind of war this is turning out to be.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:23:00 - [17] Originally by: KIAEddZ IF that isnt the case, and you really are motivated by such wishy washy feelings of dislike, then I would question wether your stomach will see you through, because have no doubts, this conflict if seen through to the end without thought for anythng other than hatred, will leave IAC pretty hollow. What makes entities willing to fight or not is a very personal thing Eddz.... yeah sure you have to have the big picture with an economical overview of a situation. But in EVE, there is no motivator like ingame hatred... and as far as alliances are concerned..very often the guys that feel the strongest about things are the leadership... even though they have the big picture in their heads also. But everybody is different ofc.

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